they received. I could give you several examples of this. For example there were some Indians there who were charged with raping a prostitute, a woman who had got 8 previous convictions for soliciting; apparently there was some dispute about the money and she went and told get in touch, but they could never find how to. Of the police that they had raped her. Two got six years, two got four, and one bloke who wasn't even present got 2 years for aiding and abetting. This case happened in Southall. There was also three black guys on a first offence; they held up some garage, stole 14 shillings, and they got six years each for that; and they were very young, they were 19, 18 and 19, when this thing happened. And there were people charged with rape. If a black guy is charged on rape, whatever the thing is, whatever the truth of the matter is, automaticilly he gets four years or six years. And in many drug cases, for possession of small amounts of drugs, black oople had got prison sentences on their first offence. The drugs may have been planted in many cases. Yes. in many cases they had been planted, that's fairly well known. There was another case; a Pakistani bloke was charged with two Englishmen for cheating at cards; one Englishman had got 21 previous convictions for criminal offences, the other had got 18 previous convictions, and this Pakistani had no previous convictions at all: they all pleaded guilty, but when it came to sentencing the judge told the Pakistani he was sure he was the ringleader, and the Englishmen two were fined E150 each and this guy was given 27 months in prison and an £800 fine.
Were any of the people in Maidstone political? No there were no political charges there, but as a result of their experiences the people became extremely political; I was really surprised to find such a high degree of consciousness.
Among the black prisoners?
Among Ine black prisoners, yes. Any magazines and books I could get were swallowed up immediately and 1 was Deme Destered au ne time to get more Cleaver's book and Malcolm X and all this kind of thing; they were really screaming out for literature that they could get, and they would come out of prison extremely conscious and wanting to do things. I am really sorry because the people who are most politically conscious are doing very long sentences, many of them are doing life sentences which is unfortunate because there is a lot of work that they could do.
And in many cases they were not politically conscious before they were arrested? No. It was really the shock, you know. When it happens to you personally, you know it's not something you heard about or read about, it's something that's actually happened to you, and it's a great traumatic experience to people and it brings home to them the reality of the situation of black people here in Britain. You will find also that the youth, among-I don't like to use the word- what you wowa tenm tne cummar cement, or wich inere are a few, people who have grown up in this country, who have had white mates and things like that, and gone out with the white mates housebreaking, in little gangs, these people are also becoming politically conscious; and you will find that in prisons there are little black power gangs going about, three or tour guys you know, looking anter can owner. It's something that is not just the result of their being worse treated than the people they are charged with. It is part of a new consciousness that is sweeping the black people throughout the world; it has also touched these people in prison and has meant country, which is also an important part of a worlda lot to them even if they were not harshly treated; they are extremely conscious of their blackness, and what it means to them.
Were you able to have good political discussions?
Yes.
Were there any restrictions on this? They did try very hard to stop me from influencing people. They objected strongly to the literature I used to have.
They didn't actually try to stop it? They tried to stop it, but I had my friends write to the governor and protest and so on, so reluctantly it was allowed in; but I had to smuggle most of the literature inside. We used to have a fair amount of and talk about these things. The response was very good; in fact many black prisoners used to come to me and say when theywere out they had heard about this black power movement and always wanted to course this was the danger of operating on a sophisticated polifical level; one doesn't reach the people; that's something we must fight against. Movements I think should be based in the communities and they should be within reach of the communities, and this is something we are doing our best to rectify now, in the light of experience. A lot of our brothers have got political convictions now, and they are spreading consciousness inside the prisons, which is very good. because there is proportionally a very high number of black prisoners. The number of crimes committed by black people according to figures issued by Scotland Yard is lower than the precentage of the population, yet if you go to Wormwood Scrubs, you will find that one third of the prisoners there are black. In Maidstone, a fifth are black. In Pentonville almost 45 per cent are black prisoners. In Wandsworth a high proportion are black. Of course the difference is that a black man on his very first conviction gets a prison sentence, whereas the whites go through borstal, detention centre, approved school, the lot, and its unusual to have a white guy in prison who hasn't got about 20 or 30 previous convictions, a long list of CORTIOnS.
You didn't find that any of the white prisoners were open to any political education?
No. The great majority of them are petty- bourgeois minded, reactionary and extremely racist. Do they actually make physical attacks on the black prisoners?
Well, they would if they had the chance to. But as the black people stick together, they don't usually have the opportunity to touch them. There nave been fights in Wormwood Scrubs between blacks and whites. In fact in Maidstone apparently before I came there was a race riot; it happened in late 1968, and since then that's our main enemy, it's the police and the they reduced the black population to one fifth and spread some black guys about in other prisons. There have been race riots in Wormwood Scrubs. The few whites who are politically conscious people are usually the ones charged with drugs; of course they belong to a scene that is politically conscious, and they also get opposition from the other prisoners. You were saying that the black people found it difficult to make contact with black power organisations although they were interested, and that you have to work in the community. Do you have plans to set up centres, for example? Yes, 1 think this is one thing. 1 think the line that I personally would put forward is that all our activities from now on should be based only in the black communities. We must try and involve the people in activities so that people know where we are and what we are doing, and we must also talk the language of the people. It's no use talking high fallutin Marxism or Trotskyism or whateverisms you have. But if you put it plain and simple, then people understand. They understand how they are oppressed, what the oppression is, who constitutes the oppressor, what we can do about it, and what we are going to do about it. Also they must be made aware of what's happening all over the world, the liberation struggles in African, in Asia in the Carribean, and the people must be involved in these, not only in their struggle back home but in the struggle in this wide black struggle for liberation. By the very nature of oppression here in Britain black people are the most revolutionary element in British society. There can be no doubt. Because they occupy a special position in the social strata here, because they are right at the bottom, they are the most oppressed, they get the worst houses, they are discriminated against, they have to do the dirtiest jobs, they have the lowest paid jobs, they are insulted by petty officials, sometimes beaten up by thugs and racists, all these conditions make them the most revolutionary element of the working class. Of course before there can be any kind of revolutionary class action, there's one problem that must be solved straight away, and that's racism. And unless this thing's tackled, people must fight oppression wherever it comes from, whether it comes from the priests or police or skinheads or the workers; if it comes from the workers, they must fight the workers.
Yes, I agree. What are your plans for the future, more specifically?
Our main task now is to develop an organisation that will effectively represent the black workers in this country, and also to strengthen the Black Peoples Alliance, which is the organisation that at the moment represents all the black peoples organisations in this country. Now that the Conservatives have won the election, Powell is going to play a crucial role, and black people will be faced with a lot of trouble, for which we must be prepared.
How much difference do you think this is going to make? After all Wilson's governmen was the first government to introduce racialist legislation.
Yes certainly Wilson has introduced racialist legislation. and the Conservative government is going to introduce racist legislation too. But there is one tning in which noen rowen excels, ne knows how to reach thi ordinary white working man; when he talks of hidden enemies he's appealing to some kind of psychological element present in their racist minds, and he can arouse and inflame this, to create some very serious problems for the black minorities here. I believe thatthis is going to happen, especially if there is an economic depression, as there must be soon.
This kind of anti-black hysteria is going to catch on. Situations like Notting Hill in 1957 will not be unusual; they're not unusual now, such things have already started happening in Wolverhampton and Bismingham, but they are of course hushed up by the press. We must have our organisations strong enough to play an effective role in such circumstances In organising defense in the communities? In organising defense, yes, organising all the the community against this. Of course many people try to point out to us that it's not the white pophlation establishment and so on. But for the man who's at the receiving end it doesn't matter who's the main enemy or who's the secondary enemy; it is what he suffers and what he's got to defend himself against that matters; analyses are up to somebody else. We also foresee that the people who are made conscious by the struggle over here are going to spread the ideology when they go back home to their respective countries, and it's going to have significant results. It has already had an effort in Trinidad; many people who are former members of UCA are there. Jamaica is going to be the next place. The Black Power ideology will also play a major role in the liberation struggles in Africa; it must; in fact it could be the main element in arousing and mobilising. The whole of the black world against the tascist dogs in Southern Africa.
Do you think it's more important for black people to struggle here, to work politically here, or in other parts of the world?
Black people must fight all over the world wherever they are. It's no use saying because I'm going to fight in Africa, I'm not going to do anything here. Ofcourse there are certain limitations in this country; for example the seizing of political power by the black community in this country is out of the question, because we are a small minority. But black people can seize power in their own countries And in this country the black community can be organisea to took arter us own interests, and to fight oppression wherever it comes from. Possibly also to actually provide an example to some sections of the white community, to raise the level of political consciousness and the level of struggle of the white population?
Ofcourse a situation could arise in Britain, whereby a sceton or tae waite community is racieansed by the example of the black struggle. This has happened in the States. But I see no indication of this happening in the future.
Interviewer: Teresa Hayter
Editorial Note:
The West German Government recently banned the Heidelburg SDS on June 25. It is no coincidence that the Heidelburg SDS was the best organised SDS group in the country and considered itself as a Leninist grouping. The ban mposed on it by the "liberal" social-democratic government is symptomatic of things to come. it is interesting to note that while Brandt tries to improve relations with the Stalinists both internally and externally, the real revolutionaries are being victimised.
The article we publish below has been transInted from the liberal newspaper, Frankfurter Rundschau, by a German Mole in London. It consists of both the Editorial comment and the report.
The events which took place last Friday, June 19th, on occasion of the international conference for development aid (attended by 21 politicians and delegates of organisations for development aid) had the appearance of a stage play in which all people engaged were unable to quit their roles.
On a permitted demonstration, peaceful at the start, about 1300 adolescents and students voiced their protest against the conference's policy of development aid, which the demonstrators thought of as organised exploitation under a new guise. They condemmed the articipation of Mr. McNamara, the president of the world bank, in the conference as a provocation, and they condemned the project of the Portuguese dam "Cabora Bassa' in Mozambique.
The demonstration route was supposed to bypass the conference hall at a distance of about a hundred yards. To prevent by all means that the conference might be disturbed by the policemen from all over the state, 4 water canons, 2 tanks with launching tubes for teargas grenades and a helicopter. Although escorted by police, the demonstration split up in order to come closer to its 'object, (the conference hall) where the demonstrators hoped to be able to catch the attention of the delegates, by pincer-movement.
The demonstrators wore neither helmets nor rain-coats. When the vanguard of the group which had left the official route came up to the first police-cordon, colour eggs were thrown severally which was answered by a massive retaliation by the water cannons, teargas grenades and a very brutal truncheon beat up. By loudspeakers the police proclaimed the demonstration "to be violent and therefore dissolved'. Then the demonstrators gathered at several points and involved the police in heavy street battles with stones-which often were thrown back into the crowd-, wooden laths and bottles. These battles lasted till late afternoon, but at no time-as has been reported severally "was the police bombarded with roof-tiles, stones, furniture etc. from down the roofs and out of the windows of university buildings" During these severe clashes not 75 (as has been reported) but 25 policemen were injured twelve of whom had ambulance treatment. Police statements that the students had used acids could not be confirmed: blisters seem to result from teargas.
As the ASTA (the executive student body) said, 35 students were severely injured, eight of them are still in hospital, some with concussion of the brain, one with larynx haemorrhage due to being choked on arrest. Report The State government of Baden-Wurttemberg yesterday proclaimed the SDS-fraction of the university of Heidelberg illegal and had the group dissolved. Concomitant to the proclamation the police in Heidelberg put the illegalizing and dissolving order into effect in a big police-action Since the SDS conference of March this year dissolved the SDS as a nationwide organisation, the Heidelberg SDS group existed as an independent body without organisational links to other socialist groups. The ministry of the intertor in Stuttgart describes the SDS as an organisation *whose aims and actions are contrary to the criminal law and are directed against the constitutional order".
At the same time the government in Stuttgart prohibited the founding of an organisation substituting the Heidelberg SDS. The SDS funds were seized and confiscated on behalf of the state of Baden Wurttemberg. The government justifies the prohibition of the SDS with last weeks violent demonstration which was organised by the SDS and which led to criminal offences such as disturbance of peace, attempted manslaughter insult and coercion of civil servants, dangerous injuries, use of offensive weapons and others. The participation of SDS members in that demonstration is not incidental, but is part and parcel of the general policy of the former SDS aiming at a violent overthrow of the existing constitutional order…......By unlawful means the SDS of Heidelberg attempts a revolutionary change of the political structure of the Federal Republic of Germany.* In the interest of the public the ministry had declined an impeachment of the SDS against the order of prohibition, which-granted -would have effected an delay.
The order of prohibition was delivered at the private adresses of several SDS members at 10a.m. At the same time the AStA building (this executive student body being dominated by SDS members) was occupied by about 75 plain clothes policemen and 100 constables. Leaflets and red flags were seized, the desk of the president of the students* parliament was forced open and files were confiscated. The search permit was handed in only after the raid was completed. The chancellor of the university, as proprietor, was given notice after the event and not before as was claimed by the police. The AStA president was only allowed into his office after Vice-chancellor Professor Noack's protest.
Immediately the AStA called for a general students assembly to discuss what actions to take about the police raid and the SDS prohibition. About 4000 students attended the meeting, and telegrams of solidarity poured in from all over the Federal Republic, while police outside the building was reinforced by 500, by water canons and armoured cars. Police headquarters even considered to call for reinforcement from the para-military border guards.
Speaking at the assembly, Professor Rendtorff, the chancellor, criticised the police action and confirmed that he, too, nad been taken by surprise by the raid The federal conference of assistant professors sent a telegram condemning the prohibition order as a blow to university reform in general.
The meeting demanded the immediate withdrawal of the order, demanded the resignation of Baden Wurttemberg's Prime Minister and the Minister of the Interior (both SPD = Social Democrats) and called on all universities in the Federal Republic to hold solidarity strikes.
Frankfurter Rundschau, June 27th:
In the annual election to the students parliament in the university of Heidelberg, all delegates which had been member of the now forbidden SDS held or won their seats by overwhelming majority.
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demonstration the executive of the state of Baden-Wurttemberg had summoned: 625